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Help "typing" people
#11
(08-13-2013, 08:37 AM)oldfashionedgirl Wrote: Yes, that's very helpful! I will definitely be using that to type other people! Smile

You're welcome! =)

(08-13-2013, 08:37 AM)oldfashionedgirl Wrote: Out of what you listed...

- My Dad's up at 5:00 AM and comes home anywhere between 3:00 and 6:00 depending on how hectic his factory job is. If they do inventory he can be gone till 10:00. He is a supervisor at a plastics factory he's worked at for over 25 years. The factory people always higher a lot of people who "can't handle how hot it is" and won't want to wear the safety equipment, so he either scares the heck out of them with statement "Either you do what you're here to do or I'll show you the door. I really don't care either way." or he rather bluntly asks the people above him why they "hire all the idiots".
- My Dad does try to be helpful and do things for the family, and occasionally succeeds but honestly I don't think he's sure how or what and he won't ask.
- He likes to be doing something. He doesn't mind taking off now and then but he would prefer to have something to do.
- As for arrogance, I never notice that as much, in the true sense of everyone-else-is-dumb attitude, except for packages. He always asks me why I am reading the instructions on a box dinner when they're probably wrong anyway. But when it comes to people he doesn't mind admitting he's wrong as long as there's proof. Which includes to my Mom.

I was reading up on INTJ. It fits totally, I think it's settled on him.

The way you described how he's not sure how or what to do but won't ask seems to be a characteristic of tertiary Fi. They're very awkward about it. Because it's tertiary, they're sort of on a balance between feeling that they should do something and putting their individual values and feelings first. As I mentioned before, tertiary functions tend to be a bit of a problem. Think about our Si. We like to use it for sensing atmosphere, archiving things, picking out the things that work for us and making particular familiar environments and routines, but we have a problem with SJ rules, we don't like closed-minded thinking or too much trust in the past, we're constantly on that balance between favouring the familiar and exploring new things (Ne) and we have trouble with situational awareness and rules or claims to authority that don't fit with our principles or seem logical. IxTJs' tertiary Fi has that sort of awkward balance between wanting to include it and wanting to disapprove of and reject it.

Arrogance was just the best word I can think of. It's more subtle and unthinking than it is intentional. They just say things without seeming to be aware that it could step on someone's toes, hurt their feelings or just be unnecessarily harsh or inappropriate. I meant those times when.... they say things with a tone that is as though they are looking down on the world a bit. It isn't a constant, conscious, 'I am right and everyone else is wrong' state of mind kind of thing.

(08-13-2013, 08:37 AM)oldfashionedgirl Wrote: That sounds very unlike her to me, but then again 2 traits being different when the rest fits doesn't mean it's not though, right?

There's sort of a mixed answer to that. Mostly, that's right. Everyone's individual life affects the exact way their personality turns out and even just on this forum you can see the variety. Everyone has their own habits and has experienced applying and developing their functions in different ways. Also, you get nice and horrible people in every type. On the other hand, it depends what those two traits are that don't fit. They might be important ones that indicate that the person is a different type than previously thought, or they might be minor ones that aren't really type-related or that you have mis-read, or you might be judging them against false information on a type.

(08-13-2013, 08:37 AM)oldfashionedgirl Wrote: As for Mom.... INFJ is close but I'm not positive. Here is why:

Quote:"On the other hand, INFJ parents can also be quite demanding and even manipulative."
That is what the type page said. My Mom is not like that. She HATES to appear to be controlling and is always like "I don't want to sound manipulative but..." and id Dad makes a discussion, even if she doesn't fully agree, won't resist, because she says she doesn't want to appear controlling. The idea of controlling, I know, stresses her out.

The key phrase there is "can be". Not all INFJ parents will be like that.

That she says 'I don't want to sound manipulative but' indicates that it is something she might have been in the past and something she pays special attention to avoid. She is clearly aware of the possibility that she could be seen as manipulative.

Also, Fe in general likes to back down to keep harmony rather than battering its way through to get what it wants. People with stronger Fe can find it hard to even know what they want to begin with. Remember, in one of Jason's articles he said we look for clues of our identity because we don't just feel it. That's Ti over Fe. With Fe dominant over Ti, people can get sucked into embodying the identity that they think other people want to see. I always distinctly remember an ESFJ saying that it feels like 'let me be who you want'.

Anyway, check out the INFJadvice tumblr (http://infjadvice.tumblr.com/) for some inside info on what it's like to be an INFJ. See if your mother matches those in any way. If she matches only some of them, then try to figure out which ones and see if they match to functions at all. I'm almost absolutely certain that she has Fe and that she has Fe stronger than she has Ti. I'm also pretty certain she has Ni. So mostly it's the perceiving functions, the order and the I/E you're looking out for.

Is it the idea of controlling, or the idea of being seen as controlling? I'm not entirely certain whether the distinction makes a difference about type or not. I'm finding it hard to connect the fear of being controlling to anything other than strong Fe, and even then it's awkward.

Here are some quotations from INFJadvice:

Quote:Anonymous asked:
I'm extremely manipulative sadly. I use my special familiarity with the human Psyche to play mind games. Is this an INFJ thing to do?

INFJs certainly have all the skill sets to be excellent manipulators but most of the time don’t use them. Most of the time we blame ourselves and feel bad rather than manipulate to get what we want. But maybe there are other INFJ manipulators out there? I mean I’ve done it when I HAVE to but I don’t make a habit out of it. It creeps me out because really, I’m scary good at it. I don’t want to be like that so I avoid that type of behavior at all costs. Once I started making a habit of it I’d probably take over the world, and no one wants that kind of behavior. Maybe it would help to do some volunteering to get your Fe working in the right direction. It couldn’t hurt.

Be nice. Stay Awesome

http://infjadvice.tumblr.com/post/574861...my-special

Quote:Anonymous asked:
And to continue the manipulation bit, it wasn't immediate. I think what made me feel so awful was that I knew what to say to make my friend believe it. I made them the leader of our magical group that only I could remember, so they felt in control. I created a reality for them that I knew would cater to every need or desire they had. I was aware of what I was doing but it got so hard to stop. Because I knew it made them happy, I didn't want to take that away from them. But also, I felt powerful.

Oops should’ve included this in the other ask…my bad.

Yea you can easily get caught up in the idea that your doing the person a favor and you can DEFINITELY get caught up in the power of it.

That’s why I don’t recommend it.

Just be good everyone.

Be nice.

Stay Awesome
http://infjadvice.tumblr.com/post/576333...t-it-wasnt

Quote:Anonymous asked:
I really relate with the person who admitted they can be manipulative. It's so easy. I liked to play games of pretend as a kid and didn't want to stop in middle school. The friends I knew in elementary school and I agreed to stop saying "Pretend that..." and just delve into it. I didn't think I could convince someone that my fantasy was real. My friend believed it, and I knew she did but didn't stop because it meant a lot to her. She believed we became witches in our sleep from grade 6 to 8.

Ha! Oh my that’s fantastic! I mean terrible….but great. Yea when I was younger I manipulated people ALL THE TIME. I manipulated to get toys, I manipulated to get kids to do what I wanted, and I was never against making up all kinds of stories to trick friends with. I just don’t do that anymore because I don’t want to be like that anymore. I don’t want to hurt the people I love by lying to them. I only use my manipulative powers to get out of a tight spot or use them against someone who did something terrible to me or a friend. I’ve gotten a little rusty since I was a kid actually. Or maybe it’s just my friends aren’t easily fooled like children anymore. Either way I’m glad I don’t do it anymore. It’s like the INFJ rage, it scares me so I keep it under wraps.

But I think a lot of us grow out of it because well, it is rather selfish in nature. I’m not willing to go to such terrible lengths to get what I want. I’d rather do it the honorable way so I know I’ve earned it.

Be good. Stay Awesome
http://infjadvice.tumblr.com/post/576331...d-they-can

(08-13-2013, 08:37 AM)oldfashionedgirl Wrote:
Quote:"Always need to have a cause. INFJs may find it difficult to focus and force themselves to complete tasks which are not linked to one of their goals, e.g. some routine administrative work that must be carried out. People with this personality type always want to know that they are moving towards a worthy goal, and may feel disappointed and restless if this is not the case."

You didn't explain this. Why does it not fit your mother?

Also, here's a list of types that have run through my head as ideas so far: INFJ, ISFJ, ENFJ. Some of those were because of functions and others were because of behavioural similarities. But I'm pretty sure about her being an INFJ now. The Ni and Fe were just so clear, as was the balanced Fe and Ti. Also I'm fairly certain there was something I thought could maybe be Se in one of your original posts but I forget what it was.

Also, you can tell Ti people because they don't immediately get bored when you want to discuss things just for the fun of it. Te people always switch off a bit. Even if they don't tell you, they have. My INTJ used to switch off whilst I rambled about something and after a while I caught on and would ask her what she was thinking about when I zoned back in.

Oh, also, I meant to say that another thing I've learnt is that the best way to learn about a function is to look at a type that has it as their dominant. If you turn that around, then look for a function that most embodies the person you are looking to type. If you were looking to define an INTP, you would choose Ti, backed up with some Ne. So, think about the most defining traits of your mother. What would you say if you had to sum up her most characteristic traits? Then connect these to functions, temperaments and types.

Sorry these replies are so long ><
Still talking to myself, and nobody's home (alone).
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#12
Btw, I have an INFJ sister who is not manipulative at all, so it's definitely not a requirement.
Reply
#13
(08-13-2013, 09:55 AM)thelithiumcat Wrote:
(08-13-2013, 08:37 AM)oldfashionedgirl Wrote: Yes, that's very helpful! I will definitely be using that to type other people! Smile

You're welcome! =)

(08-13-2013, 08:37 AM)oldfashionedgirl Wrote: Out of what you listed...

- My Dad's up at 5:00 AM and comes home anywhere between 3:00 and 6:00 depending on how hectic his factory job is. If they do inventory he can be gone till 10:00. He is a supervisor at a plastics factory he's worked at for over 25 years. The factory people always higher a lot of people who "can't handle how hot it is" and won't want to wear the safety equipment, so he either scares the heck out of them with statement "Either you do what you're here to do or I'll show you the door. I really don't care either way." or he rather bluntly asks the people above him why they "hire all the idiots".
- My Dad does try to be helpful and do things for the family, and occasionally succeeds but honestly I don't think he's sure how or what and he won't ask.
- He likes to be doing something. He doesn't mind taking off now and then but he would prefer to have something to do.
- As for arrogance, I never notice that as much, in the true sense of everyone-else-is-dumb attitude, except for packages. He always asks me why I am reading the instructions on a box dinner when they're probably wrong anyway. But when it comes to people he doesn't mind admitting he's wrong as long as there's proof. Which includes to my Mom.

I was reading up on INTJ. It fits totally, I think it's settled on him.

The way you described how he's not sure how or what to do but won't ask seems to be a characteristic of tertiary Fi. They're very awkward about it. Because it's tertiary, they're sort of on a balance between feeling that they should do something and putting their individual values and feelings first. As I mentioned before, tertiary functions tend to be a bit of a problem. Think about our Si. We like to use it for sensing atmosphere, archiving things, picking out the things that work for us and making particular familiar environments and routines, but we have a problem with SJ rules, we don't like closed-minded thinking or too much trust in the past, we're constantly on that balance between favouring the familiar and exploring new things (Ne) and we have trouble with situational awareness and rules or claims to authority that don't fit with our principles or seem logical. IxTJs' tertiary Fi has that sort of awkward balance between wanting to include it and wanting to disapprove of and reject it.

Arrogance was just the best word I can think of. It's more subtle and unthinking than it is intentional. They just say things without seeming to be aware that it could step on someone's toes, hurt their feelings or just be unnecessarily harsh or inappropriate. I meant those times when.... they say things with a tone that is as though they are looking down on the world a bit. It isn't a constant, conscious, 'I am right and everyone else is wrong' state of mind kind of thing.

(08-13-2013, 08:37 AM)oldfashionedgirl Wrote: That sounds very unlike her to me, but then again 2 traits being different when the rest fits doesn't mean it's not though, right?

There's sort of a mixed answer to that. Mostly, that's right. Everyone's individual life affects the exact way their personality turns out and even just on this forum you can see the variety. Everyone has their own habits and has experienced applying and developing their functions in different ways. Also, you get nice and horrible people in every type. On the other hand, it depends what those two traits are that don't fit. They might be important ones that indicate that the person is a different type than previously thought, or they might be minor ones that aren't really type-related or that you have mis-read, or you might be judging them against false information on a type.

(08-13-2013, 08:37 AM)oldfashionedgirl Wrote: As for Mom.... INFJ is close but I'm not positive. Here is why:

Quote:"On the other hand, INFJ parents can also be quite demanding and even manipulative."
That is what the type page said. My Mom is not like that. She HATES to appear to be controlling and is always like "I don't want to sound manipulative but..." and id Dad makes a discussion, even if she doesn't fully agree, won't resist, because she says she doesn't want to appear controlling. The idea of controlling, I know, stresses her out.

The key phrase there is "can be". Not all INFJ parents will be like that.

That she says 'I don't want to sound manipulative but' indicates that it is something she might have been in the past and something she pays special attention to avoid. She is clearly aware of the possibility that she could be seen as manipulative.

Also, Fe in general likes to back down to keep harmony rather than battering its way through to get what it wants. People with stronger Fe can find it hard to even know what they want to begin with. Remember, in one of Jason's articles he said we look for clues of our identity because we don't just feel it. That's Ti over Fe. With Fe dominant over Ti, people can get sucked into embodying the identity that they think other people want to see. I always distinctly remember an ESFJ saying that it feels like 'let me be who you want'.

Anyway, check out the INFJadvice tumblr (http://infjadvice.tumblr.com/) for some inside info on what it's like to be an INFJ. See if your mother matches those in any way. If she matches only some of them, then try to figure out which ones and see if they match to functions at all. I'm almost absolutely certain that she has Fe and that she has Fe stronger than she has Ti. I'm also pretty certain she has Ni. So mostly it's the perceiving functions, the order and the I/E you're looking out for.

Is it the idea of controlling, or the idea of being seen as controlling? I'm not entirely certain whether the distinction makes a difference about type or not. I'm finding it hard to connect the fear of being controlling to anything other than strong Fe, and even then it's awkward.

Here are some quotations from INFJadvice:

Quote:Anonymous asked:
I'm extremely manipulative sadly. I use my special familiarity with the human Psyche to play mind games. Is this an INFJ thing to do?

INFJs certainly have all the skill sets to be excellent manipulators but most of the time don’t use them. Most of the time we blame ourselves and feel bad rather than manipulate to get what we want. But maybe there are other INFJ manipulators out there? I mean I’ve done it when I HAVE to but I don’t make a habit out of it. It creeps me out because really, I’m scary good at it. I don’t want to be like that so I avoid that type of behavior at all costs. Once I started making a habit of it I’d probably take over the world, and no one wants that kind of behavior. Maybe it would help to do some volunteering to get your Fe working in the right direction. It couldn’t hurt.

Be nice. Stay Awesome

http://infjadvice.tumblr.com/post/574861...my-special

Quote:Anonymous asked:
And to continue the manipulation bit, it wasn't immediate. I think what made me feel so awful was that I knew what to say to make my friend believe it. I made them the leader of our magical group that only I could remember, so they felt in control. I created a reality for them that I knew would cater to every need or desire they had. I was aware of what I was doing but it got so hard to stop. Because I knew it made them happy, I didn't want to take that away from them. But also, I felt powerful.

Oops should’ve included this in the other ask…my bad.

Yea you can easily get caught up in the idea that your doing the person a favor and you can DEFINITELY get caught up in the power of it.

That’s why I don’t recommend it.

Just be good everyone.

Be nice.

Stay Awesome
http://infjadvice.tumblr.com/post/576333...t-it-wasnt

Quote:Anonymous asked:
I really relate with the person who admitted they can be manipulative. It's so easy. I liked to play games of pretend as a kid and didn't want to stop in middle school. The friends I knew in elementary school and I agreed to stop saying "Pretend that..." and just delve into it. I didn't think I could convince someone that my fantasy was real. My friend believed it, and I knew she did but didn't stop because it meant a lot to her. She believed we became witches in our sleep from grade 6 to 8.

Ha! Oh my that’s fantastic! I mean terrible….but great. Yea when I was younger I manipulated people ALL THE TIME. I manipulated to get toys, I manipulated to get kids to do what I wanted, and I was never against making up all kinds of stories to trick friends with. I just don’t do that anymore because I don’t want to be like that anymore. I don’t want to hurt the people I love by lying to them. I only use my manipulative powers to get out of a tight spot or use them against someone who did something terrible to me or a friend. I’ve gotten a little rusty since I was a kid actually. Or maybe it’s just my friends aren’t easily fooled like children anymore. Either way I’m glad I don’t do it anymore. It’s like the INFJ rage, it scares me so I keep it under wraps.

But I think a lot of us grow out of it because well, it is rather selfish in nature. I’m not willing to go to such terrible lengths to get what I want. I’d rather do it the honorable way so I know I’ve earned it.

Be good. Stay Awesome
http://infjadvice.tumblr.com/post/576331...d-they-can

(08-13-2013, 08:37 AM)oldfashionedgirl Wrote:
Quote:"Always need to have a cause. INFJs may find it difficult to focus and force themselves to complete tasks which are not linked to one of their goals, e.g. some routine administrative work that must be carried out. People with this personality type always want to know that they are moving towards a worthy goal, and may feel disappointed and restless if this is not the case."

You didn't explain this. Why does it not fit your mother?

Also, here's a list of types that have run through my head as ideas so far: INFJ, ISFJ, ENFJ. Some of those were because of functions and others were because of behavioural similarities. But I'm pretty sure about her being an INFJ now. The Ni and Fe were just so clear, as was the balanced Fe and Ti. Also I'm fairly certain there was something I thought could maybe be Se in one of your original posts but I forget what it was.

Also, you can tell Ti people because they don't immediately get bored when you want to discuss things just for the fun of it. Te people always switch off a bit. Even if they don't tell you, they have. My INTJ used to switch off whilst I rambled about something and after a while I caught on and would ask her what she was thinking about when I zoned back in.

Oh, also, I meant to say that another thing I've learnt is that the best way to learn about a function is to look at a type that has it as their dominant. If you turn that around, then look for a function that most embodies the person you are looking to type. If you were looking to define an INTP, you would choose Ti, backed up with some Ne. So, think about the most defining traits of your mother. What would you say if you had to sum up her most characteristic traits? Then connect these to functions, temperaments and types.

Sorry these replies are so long ><


I don't know if what I'm about to mention has anything to do with it, but I think N is a big trait for Mom. She never decides, never finishes anything... and when you ask her something, a simple yes or no question, you get 500 answers.
That. drives. Dad. nuts. He always just wants a "yes" or "no" and not 500 iNtuitive and abstract answers.
The reason this didn't fit (I forgot to type it...)
Quote:
(08-13-2013, 08:37 AM)oldfashionedgirl Wrote:
Quote:"Always need to have a cause. INFJs may find it difficult to focus and force themselves to complete tasks which are not linked to one of their goals, e.g. some routine administrative work that must be carried out. People with this personality type always want to know that they are moving towards a worthy goal, and may feel disappointed and restless if this is not the case."

You didn't explain this. Why does it not fit your mother?

Routine tasks do not seem to bother her. She seems to enjoy them. But she also seems to enjoy non-routine tasks about as equal. She seems to enjoy any task actually.
I think that, these two things are not detrimantal and that she IS an INFJ. Esp. since INFJs are listed on some site I was on as being "entusiastic" as far as social goes, at least for a while.
As far as I can tell she doesn't/hasn't ever been manipulative but she must know she could be, which freaks her out. That would fit.
What happens if you drop soap on the floor? Does it get dirty? Can't wash it off.... it's already... soap.
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#14
(08-13-2013, 05:50 PM)oldfashionedgirl Wrote: Routine tasks do not seem to bother her. She seems to enjoy them. But she also seems to enjoy non-routine tasks about as equal. She seems to enjoy any task actually.
I think that, these two things are not detrimantal and that she IS an INFJ. Esp. since INFJs are listed on some site I was on as being "entusiastic" as far as social goes, at least for a while.
As far as I can tell she doesn't/hasn't ever been manipulative but she must know she could be, which freaks her out. That would fit.

I'm glad it makes sense =]
Still talking to myself, and nobody's home (alone).
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#15
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