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What's love got to do, got to do with it?
#1
Seems to me the words of Tina Turner's "What love got to do with it?" are very appropriate today...

So the lovely INTP floors me during one of those wide-ranging multi-topic (chuck in a philosopher or two) comfy chats...

"I realy want to take off a few months every year from work and spend it hiking and in the mountains. City life is just not right for me. (All OK so far - these observations ring true and we share a love of hiking and mountains.) You only get one life and we can afford it. How much do you earn? Right - then if you moved in to my house we can afford 3 months a year off."

Later (and perhaps a bit unfair taking it out of context, as it was NOT said unkindly) - "I really want to do this so if you don't then I will have to find someone else."

OK - so the question - WTF does this mean??

Option one - I am thnking about the future and here are my thoughts - let's discuss them sometime. I want to tell you my ideal world.

Option two - I love you and want to spend the rest of my life with you and here is what I want us to do. (This option is v unklikely given it is a very new relationship).

Option three (the one I am most afraid it means) - I want to do this and you'll do as a prospective partner. Can't be fussed with this emotion shit anyhow. Will you sign up?

Your sage guidance is sought - and if it does mean option three, tell me gently, OK? If you are wondering why I am asking you folk and not him (I will, I will) it is because I am trying to get my head around it and remove my emotional reaction (my natural response) and I found last set of comments very helpful. Thanks in advance.
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#2
Currently humming "what's love...."

Clarification needed: =)
Could it just be someone else to travel with? As far as I know it is normal to atleast backpack/hike 2 people at a time? Purely a pragmatic proposition to a prospective problem?

If this is the interpretation, it would just be that he would prefer to go with you, but would have to find another travel partner if you do not want to go.
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#3
Umm, I got nuthin i'm afraid. I'd have to ask for clarification. I am often confused by another's motives and meaning, and if it means something to me - i.e. important, potential alarm bells - then I will ask them to clarify. I will usually state it is because I am no good at reading between the lines and don't want to jump to many wild and varied conclusions. So please spell out exactly what you mean!

On the other hand I make the mistake of thinking I myself am clear, as I will have either thought it out very clearly in steps and have not recognised that you are only being told the end result. Or I try to shorten it to the last step so that you are not bored by the process I took to get there! Again not realising that you will need at least some of the steps to interpret the end result.

I don't think your INTP will have intentionally wanted to bluntly say, well it's this or I'll find someone else - there you go, take it at face value, thank you very much, goodbye!. There's bound to be more Huh
Be in love with your life. Every minute of it. - Jack Kerouac
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#4
What Ravn and Lucy said: He could have meant another hiking partner. He might have thought he was being clear, but had no idea you were confused. I'll do that a lot when my mind is focused on one line of thinking and not realize that the thoughts I've shared are taken out-of-context from the rest of my thinking.

If it was option 3 and he did mean "find someone else" in the worst sense:
If I shared everything that went through my mind, people would be horribly offended. My mind likes to take one idea and go in every direction I possibly can with it, so for example, if someone dies, I'll still have all the appropriate sad thoughts and happy memories, along with jokes about how they died or wondering if I'll be receiving any of their possessions. Of course I don't share these inappropriate thoughts, but I can't help that my mind has gone there, my point being that it's rare for an INTP to say, "I never thought of that," because we spend most of our time thinking. So in a relationship, there's always the constant question of "Where is this headed?" For some people, they might have to sit down and focus on that. For me, it's always on my mind. Of course, I can chill out and remind myself that no matter where it's headed, I can enjoy myself while it lasts, and that's what I do. But it's still natural for me to categorize things and project them into the future and think, "Wow, I can really see myself with this person for a while!" or "I'm not sure how long I can stand this fault of his..." But of course I don't verbalize these thoughts because I'm aware that I'm over-analyzing and thinking things that would make the other person uncomfortable.
So maybe he was wondering about the future and said something out loud that he should have kept to himself. If this was the case, I'd try not to worry about it too much. Those thoughts will be there whether or not he says them out loud. But since he did say them out loud, you should see what he meant by it, because we can only do so much guesswork here.
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#5
Thanks for your comments.

Was very proud of self cause I went away and thought (and analysed) and stopped intuiting what he meant and decided based on the evidence that he definitely meant "here is my ideal life, what do you think?" and I stepped away from all the emotion I felt when he casually suggested we could live together (holy moley!). Then she made the stupid mistake of thinking - well, I am an NT too, I get the analysis stuff. So I email him - here is the thing... you said this, but you didn't really mean it, and maybe you want to be more careful when you say things like that, eh? Cause they can get misinterpreted and us silly girls, well, we do misinterpretation alot.

Not a good response by me, perhaps.

Or from him... WHAM - I was being patronising, illogical (obviously a major crime!), etc etc etc. Then half an hour later he emails me saying he is sorry. I email back after his "I'm sorry" email and do what this site says - state the facts: miscommunication, yes I wasn't being rational (did NOT say "so shoot me!" but sorely tempted) and I hoped we could get past it. Still working on that bit...

So what have I learned? GOOD question - thank you for asking...
That bit on the site about INTPs feeling emotion very lucidly, TRUE.
There is a need for advice on what to do when INTPs come out of the corner throwing punches (verbal ones). Maybe we ask the moderator for insights...

The thing I don't like about my response is that when he got me with the verbal insult, I really thought "you want to fight me? You and your emotional fragility wanna sling insults at me? Are you an IDIOT?? - You won't break my emotions but I sure as hell can break yours! I will make mince meat of your emotions in precisely 1.5 seconds and have you crying for your momma in the corner". I didn't do it. I did what this site suggests. I don't like hurting people and am, believe it or not after reading that sentence, kind to others. However, I have a temper too and am a bit terrified of the damage that the temper will do (to him) if he is silly enough to take me on face to face on a day when I am not feeling resiliant and reminding myself about adult communication...

Hope I haven't scared you all off from answering Smile Thanks for reading.
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#6
PallasAthena is pretty much spot on =)

You skipped a step in the communication, which might have made the tone of the conversation worse. (as far as I can tell)
Phrasing it the other way around, saying you said this, I saw it this way, but I now know/think you meant this. Then go on to tell him how to avoid it.
Going directly to the 'be careful' bit can make it seem patronising. Though you finish off also patronising yourself a bit ("us silly girls"), which seems an odd defence mechanism to me. Degrading yourself as a person due to an unchangeable factor, though I am fully aware you merely did it to pass it off as a minor occurance. I would probably have gone with a "feelings take over once in a while, but not often" thing, or similar.

The structure of your email will be greatly analysed, and all hidden meanings will be extracted. This might just be my excessive forum/'written form' experience influencing my tendency to analyze texts though =)

I only had an outburst of emotional character agaisn't others 3-4 times in my life, so I am not much of a help in that area.
Though I've imagined plenty of times ripping someones head off (literally and in words).
Anger had the tag "useless" for me through most of my life. Others might be able to help here =)
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#7
(06-08-2014, 06:08 PM)Intrigued ENTJ Wrote: Seems to me the words of Tina Turner's "What love got to do with it?" are very appropriate today...

So the lovely INTP floors me during one of those wide-ranging multi-topic (chuck in a philosopher or two) comfy chats...

"I realy want to take off a few months every year from work and spend it hiking and in the mountains. City life is just not right for me. (All OK so far - these observations ring true and we share a love of hiking and mountains.) You only get one life and we can afford it. How much do you earn? Right - then if you moved in to my house we can afford 3 months a year off."

Later (and perhaps a bit unfair taking it out of context, as it was NOT said unkindly) - "I really want to do this so if you don't then I will have to find someone else."

OK - so the question - WTF does this mean??

Option one - I am thnking about the future and here are my thoughts - let's discuss them sometime. I want to tell you my ideal world.

Option two - I love you and want to spend the rest of my life with you and here is what I want us to do. (This option is v unklikely given it is a very new relationship).

Option three (the one I am most afraid it means) - I want to do this and you'll do as a prospective partner. Can't be fussed with this emotion shit anyhow. Will you sign up?

Your sage guidance is sought - and if it does mean option three, tell me gently, OK? If you are wondering why I am asking you folk and not him (I will, I will) it is because I am trying to get my head around it and remove my emotional reaction (my natural response) and I found last set of comments very helpful. Thanks in advance.

go with Option 1. although, I would be hesitant about the rush towards action. the person seems anxious to get their life's dream going, and is thinking in a pragmatic way that if you two do not see the same kind of future, or do not at least desire it, then they will eventually have to find someone who does share this vision of the future. if I were you (always a bad way to start off, sorry!) I would be honest about your opinion on this as a life goal, and then say "but, we should really get to know each other first, because living together is a serious step, and being alone together for 3 months in the woods is an even more serious step, and we should be sure that we fit together like two peas in a pod, first."

would you have been offended if the individual had said to you "in order to be truly happy in my life, I want to have 5 kids and settle down on a farm and milk goats for a living. are you game? because, if you're not then I don't see much of a future here, even though I like you a lot"--?? that is the equivalent statement I see being made here.

caveat: clarification about what was really meant is very dicey, especially if it includes an accusation that the person is ready to jettison you. even if the person has contemplated that as a realistic outcome, they may not want to face that reality right now and may not intend that to be the outcome. they are projecting likelihoods, and wanted to feel you out about likelihoods.

big time presumption on my part: don't rush into moving in with this person, unless you really DO see that kind of life as your future ideal and really do not see yourself living your entire life without this person in it. I know, heavy eh? most people don't take 'moving in' as seriously as I believe INTP people do. they are looking at it as a long-term investment which will cost heavily if it doesn't pan out. that doesn't mean that they assume that it will most definitely (do or die!) pan out, but that it will hurt probably both of you, in many ways (including financially) if it doesn't.

edited to add: if the person is asking you, that means that they are trying the vision on for size and pretty much like it (and YOU in it!) so far, and want to see if you see a future with them, given that they have this 'plan' for living. do you see the same vision, and how grand does it appear to you?
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#8
Google "speaker listener technique".

Read, inwardly digest, practise. And use it in this type of situation - right at the time when the 'could mean this, could mean that' situation actually arises.
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#9
We can be very cerebral about our relationships. I know I am. I have a short list of things that I have concluded I need in a relationship and I would be hesitant to get involved with someone who doesn't have them because it hasn't worked out in the past. I don't consider my feelings toward someone a sufficient guide to whether the relationship is likely to go well, I have to rationally consider whether they are the right type of person for me or not. This is based on past experience where following my heart didn't work out. Your INTP might be the same, he might know what he's looking for in someone and consider it best to be straightforward with you about it. Not a very tactful way of bringing it up though if that's the case. Even so, it doesn't mean love doesn't matter. It's just that love isn't the only thing and doesn't necessarily seem like a good guide to us.
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#10
Sometimes INTP can be mixed in/up with other personality issues-NPD is an example. In that case, be careful.
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