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INTP Marriage failing.....help
#1
Hello, I am new here, I am not an INTP, but found this in search for some help and answers about my spouse who is an INTP. According to the personality test I am a ESFJ.

We have been together for almost 16 years and married 14 1/2 of those said years.
I am 10 1/2 years older than him. He was 22 when we got married. This was my second marriage and his first. At the time we got married and just recently about 3 months ago I had not clue about INTP or ESFJ or any other personality types such as these.

So things we great in the beginning and lots of learning for the both of us. We have had our ups and downs and misunderstanding. Any way I can go on and on and give you our whole life story and will share more if you want to need, but to get to the point. The last 3 year have been increasingly hard, and I am also dealing with some personal demons of my own. I know that my behavior and pushing and not understanding an INTP has taken a toll on him. Now after all this time he tells me 4 months ago that he does not see us working out in the future, and and that most of our connection has been lost and he no longer wants to work on the relationship or try to work on the relationship. Just FYI...there has not been any sexual infidelity on either part. He has not come out and directly said that he wants a divorce, however he has said he would like to separate and sees what happens. We are active duty military stationed over seas so that would mean I return to the states for at least the next 8 months and when his tour is over we would have to make a decision on to stay together or actual divorce. This is not ok with me because of trust issues and due to the conscious decision to send me and way.

This all has hit me like a ton of bricks, it came out of no where and I feel very blind sided. I do not know what to do because I love him. I do not want to loose my best friend. I will stop here because I could go on forever. So if you need more information or specifics please feel free to ask.

What are the chances of saving my marriage?
If any, what should I do or what can I do?

He thinks that because of my personality that I am will to self sacrifice to save the marriage, how can I convince him that is not true?

He says he loves me and always will. So if that is true then why would he not want to try and make it work?
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#2
I have also posted this in the Relationships- Yeah they're complex, but we can handle it as well. I hope this is ok? I was going to delete this one since I posted it there as well but I do not think that I can. Thanks for reading.
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#3
Dear JegerGirl,
Here are some notes on your inquiry; they are not complete or comprehensive, but they are some thoughts. I hope to revisit this topic (if you'll let me) when I am in a better mental state to give a more well-rounded response.
Yours,
-Moon Moon

(03-20-2016, 10:13 AM)jegergirl Wrote: At the time we got married and just recently about 3 months ago I had not clue about INTP or ESFJ or any other personality types such as these...
Communication is the goal, not exclusion. No harm, no foul. Smile

Quote:Now after all this time he tells me 4 months ago that he does not see us working out in the future, and and that most of our connection has been lost and he no longer wants to work on the relationship or try to work on the relationship... He has not come out and directly said that he wants a divorce, however he has said he would like to separate and sees what happens.
If he has identified a disconnect, he's likely waiting to see if you'll notice it too and try to do something about it.

Quote:This is not ok with me because of trust issues and due to the conscious decision to send me and way.
And clearly, this is a marriage of equals, you're not just some toy he can put on a shelf until he can handle you, you guys are partners in this.

Quote:He thinks that because of my personality that I am will to self sacrifice to save the marriage, how can I convince him that is not true?
Is it true? If so, why be something you're not? Remind him that a proper marriage takes sacrifice sometimes for the synergy to happen. He can't stop you from fighting for what you believe in.

Quote:He says he loves me and always will. So if that is true then why would he not want to try and make it work?
There are many types of love, each as valid and overwhelming as the next.
"Well if I were You-Know-Who, I'd want you to feel cut off from everyone else. Because if it's just you alone you're not as much of a threat." -Luna Lovegood
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#4
Moon Moon
Please feel free to re-visit. I am very appreciative of any and all advice.



Quote: If he has identified a disconnect, he's likely waiting to see if you'll notice it too and try to do something about it.
I have often felt distance at times when he has either shutdown or better said now gone inside to work on his own thoughts and such, but I have never had or felt a disconnect from him, and I still don't feel a complete one from him but fear that my feelings could be invalid.

Quote:And clearly, this is a marriage of equals, you're not just some toy he can put on a shelf until he can handle you, you guys are partners in this.
He has stated that with is ideal of marriage and relationships now, that he does not think he wants to be in one or have one at all. He has stated that to him they are just a form of possessiveness and control, that there is not freedom in them.

Quote:Is it true? If so, why be something you're not? Remind him that a proper marriage takes sacrifice sometimes for the synergy to happen. He can't stop you from fighting for what you believe in.
No it is not true, I don't want to be something that I am not, I have done that before with my first marriage that is why when I realized it I had to get out. It was not a good marriage. It was full of abuse, mental/physical and sexual. So I feel I am a pretty good judge on that.
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#5
You should read this if you haven't http://intpexperience.com/Dating.php. Here's an excerpt that seems like it might apply to you:

What it Means: After the warnings above, your INTP has weighed the totality of what you bring to his or her life and finally determined that the evidence clearly indicates that your presence does much more harm than good to the INTP's well being. This conclusion was certain enough to risk the emotional turmoil of a break up. Your INTP may have steeled him or herself to get through it, appearing as cold as the arctic (before global warming). The steel is a protective mechanism. Down there lurks the emotional disaster of losing you.

What to Do: Here is a recipe to get back an INTP. First, reach out and say specifically what you love about him or her and why you don't want to lose him or her forever. This message is a recitation of facts. Keep your emotions out of the reasons or explanations. Just the facts. Second, say that you believe that there are things that your INTP loves about you that he or she doesn't want to lose (but don't speculate on what they are or fish for compliments. If this recipe works, your INTP will tell you freely.) Third, say that you believe that your relationship has hurt him or her and that you now understand that fact (it is safe for you speculate here on the specifics). Ask your INTP to confirm your observations and ask him or her to further deconstruct how the relationship went awry.

Basically, you are inviting your INTP to have a logical conversation, a problem-solving session. That will feel very safe and calming to the INTP, so long as you play by the rules and KEEP YOUR EMOTIONS OUT. It is imperative that you keep conclusory, emotion-based statements out of the conversation, such as "we have a connection" or "I feel like we were meant to be together". Stick to evidence and analysis. If your INTP clams up during the conversation, apologize and figure out what you said or did to cause the reaction. Really make an effort to absorb and build on the information the INTP gives you. If you appear like you can't handle this kind of sharing and working together, the INTP will stop trying and disengage. If your INTP is talking honestly, BRAVO! Keep it going. Keep it building. You are on your way to reconciliation.
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#6
Vanillabean,
Thank you, I will go read the information. I seems familiar from the excerpt you gave. I have been doing a lot of reading and searching for answers and information since I learned about his personality.

I do worry that it will be hard for me to stay neutral emotionally since this is such a major emotional event in my life. I also worry that I might not be up for the challenge of stating the facts, at least well enough for him. I do not feel that I am very good at that and especially so to try and have a discussion of this nature with him. Plus I know he is an expert at deconstructing fear conversations with him due to this and not wanting to make things worse.
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#7
If you're going to try it, I'd suggest thinking through and maybe even writing down the things you want to say ahead of time. A friend of mine writes letters and reads them aloud to people when she has something difficult to communicate to them, maybe that would work for you at least to start the conversation.
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#8
(03-26-2016, 10:44 PM)vanillabean Wrote: If you're going to try it, I'd suggest thinking through and maybe even writing down the things you want to say ahead of time. A friend of mine writes letters and reads them aloud to people when she has something difficult to communicate to them, maybe that would work for you at least to start the conversation.

I'll second this, it seems like a good idea to me. It shows forethought and an investment, in addition to being something that can be (and will probably be expected to be) drafted and made as precise as possible. This, in turn, indicates that you are doing your best to communicate the parts that are most important to you, while allowing the random tangents/outbursts that can occur in a spontaneous conversation to not happen.

Don't try to assume what is the most important parts for him, but do plan to ask him what he thinks about it at the end. Also, expect that if you make bullet points he will answer them directly one for one.
"Well if I were You-Know-Who, I'd want you to feel cut off from everyone else. Because if it's just you alone you're not as much of a threat." -Luna Lovegood
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#9
Moon Moon,

Or any other INTP in a committed relationship, what does that mean to you? What value do you see in being in a committed relationship?

The reason I ask, he state the other day that he does not see the advantage of being in marriage/relationship any more, and for him my reasons are not valid ones. I know everyone persons reasons are different, but just wondering if other INTP's could share some of their reasons? I have read reasons as to why they don't now just wondering for the ones that do what they are.

Thank you all again for any and all suggestions.
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#10
(03-29-2016, 01:33 AM)jegergirl Wrote: Moon Moon,

Or any other INTP in a committed relationship, what does that mean to you? What value do you see in being in a committed relationship?

The reason I ask, he state the other day that he does not see the advantage of being in marriage/relationship any more, and for him my reasons are not valid ones. I know everyone persons reasons are different, but just wondering if other INTP's could share some of their reasons? I have read reasons as to why they don't now just wondering for the ones that do what they are.

Thank you all again for any and all suggestions.
Irrespective of typology, the benefit of being in a committed relationship is having someone you truly trust that you can depend on to be there for you when you need them. Someone who is your ally, and sees you as their ally, and depends on you as well.

When you first posted this, the response I gave was that I was not operating at 100% because I had just had my wisdom teeth pulled, and was a horrible tangle of over-emotionality and pharmaceutically-induced loopiness, and epic head-burying sloth. And my spouse was there for me. She drove me home from the procedure because I was in no state to drive (or even walk) the three blocks from our dentist to our house. She went to the pharmacy and fetched the painkillers for me because they had been unresponsive and slow, and no way was I able to fight that battle. She brought me applesauce, and mixed protein powder into it for me with a practiced hand that left it smooth as if it had come that way and tasted of strawberries like it should instead of iron like when I tried to do it for myself. She didn't do this because it would make her life easier, or because she felt responsible for me, or because she felt obligated; she did it because she cares about me.

I love being able to depend on her for things like this (and all the little things too), and I love being able to have her depend on me for things like driving her to school, or making her get a flu shot, or backing her up when someone is making her feel uncomfortable. There are myriad ways in which we are interdependent.

But a "committed relationship" is more than just that, it's also about mutual respect and making sure your partner feels safe with you. I personally have no moral obligations to having more than two persons involved in a relationship. There is no way that one person can be everything that another person needs; we as humans are far too complex. As far as I have experienced, having additional resources can serve to strengthen a family unit, and you can never have too many people that you can truly trust and depend on. Sure, you might relate to each of your partners in a different way, but the important thing is that you have more than one person on whom you can rely and with whom you can be comfortable being your true self. As far as I can tell, the higher percentage of our time we can spend being authentic, the healthier we are as people. Justine has no issue with that type of thing for other people, but is in no way interested in being involved in it; to her, this would be a breach of the immense amount of trust that is involved in a relationship. I Know that this doesn't have to be so, but I also Know that it's something she feels strongly about, so this is not an option for the relationship I'm in currently. It truly is that simple: it would make her uncomfortable, so it's not going to happen.

This is what it is to be committed. She relies on the fact that I will continue to make choices that would not be natural to me if I were on my own specifically because they are what is best for the relationship. Not just for her, but for us. It's like an additional, synergistic factor... Things taken into account include 1) me, 2) her, 3) the way we relate to each other. It's not always easy, and it's not always convenient, and it's not always how-I-want-it-because-I-said-so. It's called a commitment because you have to decide it's what you want and stick with your decision even when it's rough. It's choosing to continue because it's worth it, even when weighed against the strain or struggle.

And sometimes, it's just not. Sometimes we lose relationships we thought were good, or thought we wanted, either because we change our minds or because the person we're with changed their mind. It takes two (or more) people who are committed to have a committed relationship, and if the person you're with has decided that the risks or drawbacks are outweighing the benefits, there really isn't much you can do about it. It sucks, but that's personal freedom for you, it's a double-edged blade.

Also,
Quote:He has stated that with is ideal of marriage and relationships now, that he does not think he wants to be in one or have one at all. He has stated that to him they are just a form of possessiveness and control, that there is not freedom in them.
This is a reasonable though process to have if one is thinking philosophically, and meditating on the nature of marital relationships in the greater scheme of things, but as far as on-on-one interactions go, it's a cop-out; no external force commands him to interpret his life this way, this interpretation is a choice he makes. It sounds like feminism on the outside, but when you get down to it, you and he are individuals, and the only thing that determines whether he is being possessive or controlling is whether he is Actually Being possessive or controlling..... I have had relationships with people who were possessive, and relationships with people who weren't, and it wasn't decided/"fated" by the nature of the relationship, it was up to that person. I'm totally free to engage in relationships with people outside of my current relationship; I choose not to because it would hurt someone I love. (This is comparable to: I am totally free to feed chocolate to my dog, but I don't, because I love him and this would hurt him.)
"Well if I were You-Know-Who, I'd want you to feel cut off from everyone else. Because if it's just you alone you're not as much of a threat." -Luna Lovegood
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